299: Drew Manning – Complete Keto, Embracing Vulnerability As A Strength, Learn To Love Yourself

Drew: Keto is a great approach to a new lifestyle. It doesn’t have to be about weight loss and fat loss. You know, there’s other therapeutic applications to Keto such as you know, epilepsy and seizures and Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s and PTSD and traumatic brain injury and concussions and migraines. There’s all sorts of research, scientific research being done on the ketogenic diet outside of weight loss and fat loss.

Jesse: Hello and welcome to The Ultimate Health Podcast episode 299 Jesse Chappus here with Marni Wasserman and we are here to take your health to the next level.

Marni: Each week we will bring you inspiring and informative conversations about health and wellness, covering topics of nutrition, lifestyle, fitness, mindset, and so much more.

Jesse: And this week we are speaking with Drew Manning, health and fitness expert and the New York Times bestselling author, of Fit2Fat2Fit: The Unexpected Lessons From Gaining and Losing 75 lbs on Purpose. He’s a leading voice in the Keto Diet movement and the creator of the A&E show Fit2Fat2Fit and host of the Fit2Fat2Fit Experience Podcast. He’s been featured on the Dr. Oz show, CNN, Good Morning America, The Tonight Show, The View among other media outlets. Drew lives in Salt Lake City, Utah with his daughters who remind them every day not to take things too seriously.

Marni: What’s so refreshing about Drew’s approach to Keto is that it’s not just about the diet and what you eat, but it’s also about your state of mind and roof found that Keto not only had him feel good and his body, but also in his mind giving him clarity, focus and energy, and we get into all things Keto and Drew’s personal experience in today’s show. Here’s what we talk about. Why Drew gained 75 pounds on purpose? How meditation teaches you to be present, why it’s important to start your day with gratitude and why positive affirmations are so powerful. How you can be Keto as a vegan and vegetarian, what Keto cycling is and who should try it and tips for dining out if you are Keto. There’s so much good information in this episode on Keto eating and Keto living. And even if you’re not Keto, there’s still a lot to take away from today’s show. So be sure you go ahead and listen. Super excited., here we go with Drew Manning. Hi Drew, how are you? Welcome to the show.

Drew: I’m doing fantastic. Thank you guys so much for having me on.

Jesse: Drew, it’s great to have you on the show and you’re a guy that is covered in tattoos. And I want to specifically get into one tattoo that is on your right forearm that says vulnerability is strength. So when did you get this and what’s the reason behind it?

Drew: So I got this tattoo, right before my podcast episode 100 aired, which was the podcast that I, I went deep on. I, uh, had to embrace vulnerability as a strength at that moment in time. And initially came from reading books by Brene Brown. Daring Greatly was the first one that I read. And then Rising Strong, and then Braving The Wilderness. She taught me how to embrace vulnerability as a strength. And so my podcast episode 100 was something that I opened up, talk to everyone about my divorce, why I got divorced. All of those details of very uncomfortable topics that most of us don’t feel comfortable talking about. But for me, I had to embrace vulnerability as a strength to open up and own my story, which was so freeing. And that’s why that tattoo has so much meaning to me.

Jesse: And it’s interesting because growing up for you, vulnerability was looked at as a weakness and you didn’t talk about your feelings. So you went from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Drew: Yeah. But it was, it saved my life because I bought into this mantra of, you know, men don’t show weaknesses, right? We don’t talk about our feelings. You know, I played football, I wrestled. So the culture of sports that I grew up in was, hey, tough it out. You know, don’t be a wimp. You know, suck it up. Which is good. If you’re, you know, on the football field or in a wrestling match, you definitely have to be mentally and physically tough. But that plus the religion I grew up in, which was very strict and the family culture I grew up in, I looked at talking about those kinds of things as a weakness. And so my survival mechanism was to just hide the things that I was embarrassed about, hide my sins, hide my weaknesses from the world. So everyone saw me from an outside perspective as perfect because on the inside I was imperfect, which is what caused the self hate, which was created this vicious cycle of constantly beating myself or hating myself and seeing myself as a failure, which meant I did failure like things growing up until I learned how to embrace vulnerability as a strength.

Jesse: So you mentioned that hundredth episode you put out and the vulnerability. Talk about what it felt like leading up to putting that out and hitting publish and then talk about the feelings right after. Get into the detail how that felt.

Drew: Yeah, so Brene Brown talks about this going into the arena of embracing vulnerability as a strength is very, very scary and it takes a lot of courage to do that. And it definitely did for me because 10 years before this, I never would have expected me to be in a place where I would ever open up and talk about something like that. I was married, happily married, and had two kids and you know it was very religious at the time. And for me, I never could foresee me doing something like this. But you know, for me, looking back now, I had to put in the work first. I wasn’t ready right after my divorce to talk about my divorce. This happened four or five years after I put in work of seeing a life coach, reading books, doing a lot of meditations, self reflection, positive affirmations, getting into a space where I was emotionally and spiritually healthy took a while. And I think for me it took me those years to get up the courage and to learn more about myself of why would I want to share this with the world? What’s my why behind it? And putting in the work first and foremost to be in a place, emotionally, spiritually, to deliver that message with power and authenticity was really important to me. So leading up to it, I was scared. And here I was a doer of the work, a believer in the philosophy of it. But it was still scary because I thought in my head, okay, what are these people gonna think of me? What is my family gonna think of me? What is this coworker gonna think of me, right? You think literally hundreds of people what is this person gonna think of it? And it’s hard to break that programming, but that’s why I got that tattoo. I posted about it and as soon as I posted about it and posted the link to it, it was just like, you know, it is what it is and we’ll see what happens. And the stories we create in our heads are way more powerful than reality sometimes. And in my head I was thinking, okay, I’m going to get a lot of backlash, a lot of hate, a lot of you know, negativity. But it was the opposite in reality. And it was amazing how much positivity there was after posting about my episode 100 and so, you know, I’d be lying to say I didn’t go every 10 minutes and read the comments and see what people were saying. But it was so relieving to see that it was so positive. And that’s just a testament to, you know, we paralyze ourselves with these stories that become a reality. Thinking, ah that’s too scary. I couldn’t do that because this, this and this is going to happen. Well in reality it doesn’t happen that way sometimes. And so we don’t even do certain things because of that fear of the stories thinking it’s going to be x, y and z, but we don’t know until we actually do it.

Marni: And it’s also because it’s relatable. There’s probably a lot of people listening to your show who have gone through the same thing. They’ve had a divorce or they’ve, you know, experience something similar and it makes you human. So when people hear that, as opposed to putting yourself on a pedestal, you know, people have done that and you know, like I’m separate from you. I do everything perfectly. When you’re real and show people that this is who you are, it builds you up that much more. So Kudos to you for being very real and being very vulnerable.

Drew: Thank you.

Marni: And something else that you did, which was super relatable and super interesting, is you gained 75 pounds to relate to your clients so that you could feel what they’re going through. See what it’s like to be in that place of being overweight. And that’s just awesome on one level. And on another level, I’m so curious about what that was like for you to kind of have your own version of supersize me and put your body through that. So just take us through this whole story.

Drew: Yeah. I grew up my entire life in shape, you know, playing football and wrestling and never once struggled with my weight. And here I was someone who had never struggled, trying to help people as a trainer who were overweight the majority of their lives. And there was an obvious disconnect between them and me. And I couldn’t understand why it’s so hard for them. Like, Hey, here’s your meal plans. Here’s your workouts, you just follow it. You’d be perfect with it. And there’s no excuses. I don’t understand why it’s so hard, you know? And they would tell me, I, you know, I, this weekend I was really sore, I couldn’t get to the gym or you know, hey, I went out with some friends and gave in and has some beer or soda or cookies or whatever it was, and they’d feel guilty and ashamed about it and like, look, just do it. Like put down the junk food its not that hard. Until I came up with this idea of like, what if I put myself in their shoes and what if I did this for six months? So for six months I stopped exercising. I ate, you know, the foods that my clients ate, which was typically highly processed foods that are convenient and taste really good and affordable here in America. So I gained 75 pounds of pure fat and six months and it was the hardest, most humbling thing I’ve ever done to this date. It’s up there with releasing my podcast episode 100 but it was hard on a different level, right? The podcast I just pushed send and was done. This was a year long journey of stuffing myself for six months, gaining all this weight and then trying to lose the weight in six months. So it was different on a different level.

Jesse: Just to get a little bit specific there, was it the gaining weight, the hard part or was it losing it?

Drew: It was both mentally to be overweight. Here’s the thing, when you grew up in your entire life in shape, your identity is based on what your body looks like and unfortunately the opposite of that is true too. If you grew up your entire life out of shape, you identify yourself as your body. So for me, once my body wasn’t this muscular, defined six pack type of body, I freaked out. I, I’ll totally admit it. I went out in public wanting to tell strangers like I wasn’t really overweight. This is just an experiment. This wasn’t really me. Go to this website, you’ll see my before picture. I wanted to tell people so bad, so, so concerned about what they thought of me because my identity was shattered in this moment of gaining the weight. So gaining the weight was hard mentally to be overweight for the first time. Physically too, I mean I’ve never experienced chafing, I’ve never experienced what it’s like to be out of breath, walking up the stairs to feel lethargic and no energy all day long. And to feel self conscious, you know, and these other things. That was definitely humbling in and of itself. But you know, losing weight was, I kind of compare it to being on top of this mountain my whole life. The people at the top are, your genetically blessed trainers, you know, Instagram models, whoever it is. Like they’re always on the top right. And it’s not like they don’t work hard to get there, but it’s a different perspective. So from the top, the path up where you know, where my clients were they were at the bottom, the path up looks so easy, right? You’re saying, Oh yeah, you just go here, you go there, you’re yelling at them from the top to keep pushing and stopped complaining and stop falling back down. It’s like, just do it. Right. For the first time in my life, I was on the bottom of that mountain looking up and it was a totally different perspective than that journey up was way harder than I thought it would be. So it was very humbling. So both journeys, gaining weight and losing weight were hard in their own ways.

Marni: So you must have been fearful that maybe there was a chance you wouldn’t get your body back.

Drew: 100%. I’ve never had to lose 75 pounds. You know, I’ve had to cut weight for wrestling and that’s different, you know, 10-20 pounds here and there, but like 75 pounds, you know, I had my doubts for sure, but I had to trust in the process that, you know, eating healthy and exercising would get me back to fit, but I didn’t know. And it could have gone wrong. It could’ve been fit to fat and stuck.

Marni: And what was it like eating foods that you weren’t used to eating all these processed foods and fast foods? What was that like taking bites out of a big Mac or french fries or things that weren’t, that your body wasn’t accustomed to.

Drew: The food that tastes good I’m not gonna lie. But did it make me feel good? No. It created this vicious cycle because here’s the thing, my outlet, my stress relief, my therapy was exercise but it couldn’t exercise. So guess what replaced that? It had to become food, which is what it is for people. The problem with it is it, you know, it’s like Jekyll and Hyde, it’s good and it’s bad. It makes you feel good for a second and then makes you feel awful and disgusting, but, and that runs its course as well. And would that crash of hitting rock bottom, you want that high again and feeling good and it creates this vicious cycle. Constantly addicted to those types of foods to make you feel good temporarily. But then it makes you feel awful in the long run. But you keep consuming those foods four or five times a day. I ended up eating like 5,000 calories a day just cause the food tastes so good and it just, it wouldn’t keep me full for very long. And so it was very eye opening into this behavioral mindset of why people get stuck there. And I totally get why people get stuck there now I see why it’s so comfortable. Even though they don’t like the body their in, the idea of changing seems so impossible right throughout the bottom of the mountain looking up, they’re like, ah, to eat healthy to exercise every day it’s going to be really hard. And even though I don’t like this body and I feel uncomfortable a lot, it is more comfortable sometimes then the idea of changing. I can finally understand that for the first time.

Jesse: And Drew, you ended up writing a bestselling book chronicling this journey and at that time you’re very public. You looked like you’re very successful, but inside things weren’t going as well. So take us there.

Drew: Yeah. So this is what’s so funny about social media is, you know, from an outside perspective, everything looked great. It looks fantastic. You know, I went on all these TV shows, Dr. Oz, Jay Leno, Good Morning America, The View. I wrote a book., the book would become a New York Times bestseller, the book turned into a TV show I had two seasons of Fit2Fat2Fit and from an outside perspective, people are like, oh yeah, Drew, he’s super successful, he’s happily married, like, you know, hashtag relationship goals. But what they didn’t know is that Lynn and I would come home, ex-wife would come home and we would just be miserable because we were putting on a mask to save face to kind of show people like, Oh yeah, we’re happy. But inside you’re hurting. And this is what my episode 100 goes into is because this vicious cycle of guilt and shame that I grew up in of constantly hitting myself and seeing myself as a failure finally caught up to me. This is where I had to embrace vulnerability as a strength and I would hide things from ex-wife. I would hide my pornography addiction. Growing up my entire life I looked at pornography as this evil thing that was, you know, from our religion and was like, hey, don’t touch it. It’s exciting but don’t, don’t touch it. Well guess what? I was a teenage kid in the 90s and we had access to it pretty much anywhere we went. So I was exposed to it, but I didn’t know how to deal with it cause I didn’t have an outlet and no one to talk to. So I just internalize it, try to keep it in and pretend it didn’t happen. But guess what? It just, it made it, I craved it more and more and I developed that pattern from man a very young age, my early teenage years. And I didn’t want to confess it to anyone because I saw confession as a punishment. Like I, there was a punishment attached to it in the religion I grew up in. And so because of that, I developed this pattern of just not talking about it like a man is supposed to do and its just man up and don’t do it anymore. Right. But because I wasn’t perfect and kept messing up, I hated who I was. I’m like, why can’t I just be this person that I want to be? It drove me crazy, but I would hide it from even my ex-wife. And so what happened in 2009 was I ended up having an affair with someone that I never in a million years would have guessed. Me, Drew Manning would be able to do something like that and you know, as the lowest of lows. And I couldn’t figure out why I did it either. And I didn’t tell her I didn’t tell my ex-wife, and I just pretended like nothing happened. Right. And I, in my mind, the thought that was the best thing to do for the greater good because I don’t want her to suffer. I just won’t tell her. And it was out of this the selfish view of love of I love her enough not to tell her, but that’s not true love, you know? But I think a lot of people get stuck there thinking for the greater good. I’m just going to keep it in. I’ll be the one that suffers. No one else has to suffer. Well, eventually she found out about it and I had to confess and I had to open up to her and it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I broke her heart. She was devastated. She hated me. I hated myself and I couldn’t figure out why I did it. There was no reason not that there ever is a reason to cheat, but I couldn’t figure out why I did it. And it wasn’t until I met this life coach who saved my life and she was the first person on this planet to teach me to learn how to love myself. Because I never once learned how to do that from the religion I grew up in all the religious leaders I interacted with, you know, throughout this process I never learned how to love myself. And for me it clicked. This is why I ended up cheating was because I saw myself as a failure my whole life. And when you see yourself as a failure, you tend to do failure like things, whether it’s pornography addiction, you know, sex, lying, eating unhealthy food, alcohol, drugs. We tend to do these things to kind of sabotage ourselves thinking, you know, we’re not worthy of love and so you don’t deserve this, this life. And so we find these medicines, to kind of fill that void and we’re sabotaging ourselves. At the end of the day, it’s out of a place of self hey versus self love. And so eventually, you know, when I confessed to her, it was one of the hardest things we went through. But because of that, it led me to this life coach. It led me to these books, but Brene Brown, it led me to authenticity and vulnerability. And you know, she stuck with me for a good five years afterwards of going ups and downs and going on TV shows and pretending and acting. And it wasn’t until I learned how to love myself. Once I learned that I could let her go, I realized that I was doing so much damage to her and to me individually that I knew it was better for us to let go and go our separate ways individually. And so we decided to get a divorce. And you know, we moved to Hawaii for a year actually. And it was one of the best things we could have done on an individual level because today we’re in a good place emotionally. We’re in a good place spiritually. We respect each other, we love each other. As, you know, co -parents of two beautiful daughters. Um, we get along. Yeah, I’m friends with her boyfriend and I wouldn’t have it any other way to be honest with you. And so I’m grateful that I’m grateful I went through everything I did.

Jesse: Now we’re going to take a quick break from our chat with Drew, to give a shout out to our show partner, Perfect. Keto.

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Jesse: This is such an incredible deal and it’s real easy for you to take advantage. All you need to do is go to ultimatehealthpodcast.com/thrivemarket. Again, that URL is ultimatehealthpodcast.com/thrivemarket. Go and load up on all your favorite health foods and health products today from the comfort of your home. And now back to our chat with Drew. And in your new book, Complete Keto, you talk about three different ways that you learn to love yourself. One being meditation, the second being practicing gratitude, and the third was positive affirmations and embracing this practice. So let’s go one at a time through the starting with meditation. Talk about how this changed your life.

Drew: Yeah, so growing up in the Western society, I grew up in the Christian religion I grew up in, it was in a prayer was answered, prayer and scriptures and you didn’t need anything else. So I always thought meditation as this weird thing that you know, hippies or monks did. But once I, once I broke free from that mindset and that perception after my divorce, I was open to new things. Right, like seeing a life coach. Which I wasn’t open to a a point in time and like my eyes were open like, oh, these books, there’s these amazing books out there outside of the scriptures that I grew up reading that can really help me. And so I opened up my perspective of these outside sources of things. And I remember listening to meditation being talked about on Tim Ferris and these other popular podcasts from a scientific perspective, which made it more relatable to me. I’m like, okay, I see the benefits of this now. And it was becoming more mainstream. So I had downloaded these free apps and it was like, you know what? I’m just going to give it a try. And it really helped me so much. Meditation helped me live in the moment, the present, and it helps me become the observer of my thoughts rather than becoming my thoughts. Right? So now, uh, being good at meditation, I could learn to observe thoughts as they happen. So throughout the day, let’s say like my old patterning of as a kid watching pornography, it was like this reactionary state of mind that would just kind of turn off my frontal lobe of my brain and the turn on this monkey brain meditation helps me be the observer of those thoughts rather than reacting to my thoughts and becoming my thoughts. And so now I can sit back and say, okay, here’s these thoughts that are coming right and going, they’re coming, they’re going, but that’s not me. I have a choice to observe them or react to them. And that’s what meditation taught me. And so that’s why pornography, I could, you know, someone could turn it on right now and I could watch it and I could see it for what it is. It has zero effect on me now. Versus before it was this reactionary thing where I was totally out of control with it. And so that’s what meditation did for me.

Jesse: Let’s talk about gratitude and how you fit this into your daily practice.

Drew: Yeah, gratitude is something that I do post meditation. I write down three to five things I’m grateful for. And it’s surprising because sometimes you think you’ll run out of things to be grateful for, but there’s a millions and millions of things to be grateful for. And just writing it down every single morning. It helps you start your day off on the right foot or you’re doing it at nighttime before you go to bed. Just reflecting on those three to five things like, man, it could be as simple as, man, this coffee tastes really good today. And I’m so grateful that I have something like coffee and caffeine that stimulate my brain, that make me feel alive, awake, seize the day. Or it could be something as man, it just feels great to breathe today. You know? Or maybe it’s, um, you know, your kids or the food that you have, or it could be a million things, but just saying, you know what, I’m grateful and starting your day that way just helps me change my, you know, a rewire those, those pathways in my brain of looking at life from a different perspective. And so that’s what, um, a gratitude list did for me.

Jesse: And when it comes to positive affirmations, you say it’s important to either say it out loud or actually look in the mirror at yourself while you’re saying the affirmation. So talk about why it’s important to do those and what a couple examples of positive affirmations would be.

Drew: Yeah, so it’s funny because every time I think of positive affirmations, I always think of that Saturday Night Live skit with Stuart Smalley where he’s like,

Marni: you are good enough, you are smart enough

Drew: and doggone it people like me or something like that. Right?

Marni: Yeah, exactly.

Drew: It’s so funny, kinda corny, right? And I always thought of that, but you know what, like real talk seriously though, when I learned about positive affirmations and I remember the first time of doing this, I looked in the mirror and you know, it’s funny cause I get, I still get choked up about it sometimes. I looked in the mirror and I said, I love you. I’m proud of you. You know, you’re a good man. You’re a good father. And it had these, like, I got these goosebumps. It was as if no one had ever said that to me my whole life. And it was the first time that it was someone saying it to myself, but it was me. And that’s why positive affirmations are so powerful, even though it seemed so corny and weird, right? Like if someone were watching you or someone walked in, yes, it would be weird, of course. But it’s powerful. And I promise you, if you do this for 30 days, say three to five things that you’re, you know about yourself, maybe you don’t even believe them yet and that’s totally fine. That’s a start. Just say them out loud to yourself about yourself. There’s power in that and doing it in the mirror and seeing, looking into your eyes, um, it’s a conversation with yourself. And it’s something that we don’t take the time to do as humans. And I think it’s something that’s way overlooked. And I promise you, you do it consistently for 30 days. You’ll notice a big change in your life.

Jesse: And I think a good way to remember to do that. I personally don’t do it at the moment, but I might do it after this talk here is to take a sticky note and write those affirmations down and stick it right on the mirror so you’re forced to see it and remember to do it on a daily basis.

Drew: Like I said, just give it a try for 30 days, write it down on a sticky note, put it up there. You know, you can write them out the night before or write them down and reflect on them. I’ve kind of just say in the moment like what comes to me, but there’s different methods of doing it. So do what works best for you.

Marni: So growth in mindset has been such a big part of your journey and it’s also such a big part of your book, Complete Keto. So you know, kind of shifting gears into your book a little bit here, but I want to talk about how big of a role the mindset is when it comes to not just Keto, but any dietary approach and what it takes to really be fully immersed in something.

Drew: What I’m trying to do is change people’s perception of what health and fitness needs to be. Currently we are obsessed with this mindset of what’s the quickest way to lose the most amount of weight in the shortest amount of time with the least amount of effort. You know, we’re all looking for that magic pill of what’s going to change is the quickest. And sometimes people look for diets as, okay, this is the new diet. It’s going to help me look skinny and get this body that I’ve wanted. And we look at these outside forces of happiness thinking, okay, that’s what’s going to make me feel fulfilled and complete and happy is once I have this body or once I make this much money, or once I have this type of house or this type of car, we are looking for these outside sources of happiness and we’re chasing those things, thinking that’s what’s going to bring us fulfillment and happiness in life but in reality, that’s not true. And so my goal is to change people’s perception of that. What I did with Complete Keto is yes, it’s a diet book it’s about the Ketogenic Diet. There’s an aspect to that. But what I do is I bring in the mental, emotional, spiritual side of transformation and complete it with the physical transformation so that it’s a complete transformation, which is why I called it Complete Keto. I could give you just a book about meal plans and Macros and calories and eating healthy fats and getting your body into a state of ketosis where you’re burning fat as fuel. But there’s a million books about Keto. That’s why mine is so different is because yes, there’s this physical component to it, but there’s also a parallel between the physical, mental, emotional, spiritual. So I tie in things like positive affirmations and the gratitude list on top of your daily meals and meditation so that its this complete transformation. So, uh, it’s through a ketogenic approach. Yes, there’s a 30 day program with meal plans and recipes and the recipes taste delicious and they, it makes you feel good. You feel full and satiated throughout the day. You don’t have to constantly eat all day long and the food doesn’t taste like diet food, right? The food tastes amazing. So for me, Keto is a great approach to a new lifestyle. It doesn’t have to be about weight loss and fat loss. You know, there’s other therapeutic applications to Keto such as, you know, epilepsy and seizures and Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s and PTSD and traumatic brain injury and concussions and migraines. There’s all sorts of research, scientific research being done on the ketogenic diet outside of weight loss and fat loss. There’s a million diets that’ll help you lose weight, right? Keto is one of them, if that’s all you look at it as, so that’s what I’m saying is I, if I could help you change your perception of what health and fitness needs to look like, it doesn’t need to be this Instagram model type of physique thinking that’s what it looks like to be healthy. Your version of healthy in your body, different than my version of health and my body and that’s okay. We’re searching for this outward appearance thinking I’m only successful if I have this body composition and only if I look this way. I tell people to focus on the process and the habits and let the results take care of themselves over time. But the problem with our society is we focus on the results only thinking if I don’t get those results, then I’m a failure. And if I do, then I’m a success. And when we see it from that perspective, we’re setting ourselves up for failure and we’re just going to hate ourselves more and have more guilt and shame in our lives. If you flip it on its head and change your perspective and say, okay, I’m going to focus on the process, right? Eating healthy, exercising, you know, supplementation, sleeping, stress management, all these things, and just focus on that and let the results take care of themselves over time you’ll find that you’re happier and more fulfilled with your life versus you know, putting expectations on it.

Jesse: Well Drew, we’ve talked quite a bit about your story and I’m just curious, how does Keto fit into that story? When did you first come across Keto and what was the like the first time you tried that diet on?

Drew: Once again, learning from other experts in the industry. I was listening to Tim Ferriss talked to this guy named Dr Dominic D’Agostino he was on his podcast talking about how he’s, you know, he does all this scientific research on the Ketogenic diet for, with Navy seals and the Department of Defense and you know, brain toxicity and how he’s able to almost cure that with these things called exogenous ketones. And then he talked about how he did a 10-day fast with no food. And then on the 10th day he went and deadlifted 585 pounds after 10 days with no food. I’m like, how’s that possible? So this was really intriguing for me from a scientific perspective. So I decided to experiment with it. Uh, this is about four years ago or so, and I, after 60 days of experimenting with it, I loved it because here’s what I felt like. My brain has never felt this mentally sharp and the improvement in cognitive function and focus and energy and mental clarity was like night and day compared to before. I felt like Bradley Cooper from the movie Limitless when he takes that clear pill, you know, his brain is just on fire and he can, you know, write algorithms and speaking languages. I can do that. But I felt like my brain was just on fire and I never felt that before from changing my diet.

Jesse: And I really think that’s a unique part of your specific message is that it really did have this impact on your brain and your cognitive function.

Drew: Yeah, I think that’s what people end up loving about Keto is they come for the weight loss and the fat loss, but when they shift over and they get Keto adapted, their brain is running off a different fuel instead of glucose. It’s running off ketones and your brain feels different running off of ketones. And that’s why people, I think stay on the ketogenic diet is because they feel mentally sharp and mentally clear. And so that was the first thing I loved about it. The second thing was that I wasn’t a slave to food. So I was your traditional six meals a day, Tupperware work containers, you know, rice and Broccoli and chicken. You know, in my Tupperware container, set my alarm every three hours. I was that person for years and it worked. I looked great on the outside, but when I switched over to Keto, I went down to six meals a day to two meals a day, and I was never hungry throughout the day. My brain was so much sharper, my digestion was better, and I didn’t feel like a slave to food. I never felt hangry. I never felt those cravings of like, oh my gosh, I gotta have something. I could go six, seven, eight hours without any food. And I just feel fantastic and I’ve never experienced that before. So I wasn’t a slave to food anymore. Uh, I was full throughout the day. My digestion was better, my brain was mentally sharp. And that’s why I ended up staying on the Keto diet and loving it and becoming a huge proponent of it.

Jesse: An important message you share in your book is how different people are going to react to different foods if they’re on the Keto diet. And I just love for you to get into this a little bit and talk about how if somebody is having, say an avocado that can have a different effect on being in Ketosis or getting bumped out depending on the person. And this goes for the amount of protein somebody can consume and on and on. So can you talk about that difference between person to person?

Drew: With Keto, we try and put people into a box of like, okay, here’s your macros, here’s your calories and stick to here’s the food you can and can’t eat and you need to be perfect with it. But when in reality, now that I’ve done it for years, I’ve learned that there’s different approaches and there’s different ways to do it depending on the person that there’s a right way and a wrong way. And there’s a lot of bio individuality so people have to kind of discover and tweak to find out what is optimal for them. And sometimes that requires testing and tracking and just going off of how you feel. You know, some people can do good with more protein, some people will get kicked out of Ketosis if they eat too much protein, for some people they can have more carbohydrates like from even some fruits and vegetables and other people need to keep their carbs 20 grams or less strict or otherwise it could trigger a seizure. It just depends on the person. So there’s a lot of tweaking and individuality that needs to go into it. And in my book Complete Keto I talk about how to test and tweak to find what works best for you and what is optimal for you.

Jesse: Let’s talk about the different types of testing and the method that you prefer.

Drew: The gold standard is uh, blood ketone testing, right? Using a blood ketone monitor. There’s a bunch of companies I let currently like KetoCoachx, that’s just with the letter x at the end, KetoCoachx, they have a great key blood ketone monitor. It’s about 50 bucks and their strips are the cheapest. So you prick your finger, it raise what your blood ketone levels are. And that’s the gold standard way of knowing if your in ketosis or not. Anything above a 0.5 is nutritional ketosis. Um, anything below that, it’s not. So the interesting thing is the Keto diet is the only diet that you can actually prove whether or not, and actually say you’re doing the diet and there’s no other debt that you can prove. You know, like, hey, I’m eating Paleo. Let me prove it to you, or vegetarian or vegan you can’t really prove that. With Keto you can can actually prove it by testing your blood ketone levels, right? If they’re above 0.5. And so that’s what I recommend for gold standard. The urine strips, those were the cheapest, but they’re not very accurate. The more keto adapted you become, the less that show up in your urine, just fyi, which is a good sign. Your body’s becoming more efficient at using ketones as an efficient energy source, and so it won’t show up in the urine as much in the waste because your body is utilizing those for energy. And so that’s why I wouldn’t recommend the urine strips.

Jesse: Now we’re going to take another quick break from our chat with Drew to give a shout out to our show partner Organifi.

Marni: The beautiful thing about Organifi’s green juice powder is that it’s powder but it tastes exactly like a green juice. It’s got such clean ingredients in it, it tastes fantastic. It’s got coconut water powder in there, which gives it a beautiful flavor. A lot of people complain that green juice powder is too bitter, but the coconut water actually balances that. It’s really delicious. You just put a scoop in some water, drink it up. You’ve got your greens in for the day as insurance and hopefully that is in addition to all the fresh beautiful greens you’re going to eat. So if you haven’t tried the green juice powder from Organifi yet, get your hands on it. It’s amazing. It gives your body an extra boost of vitamins and minerals.

Jesse: As a listener of our show, you get 20% off the whole Organifi line up and to take advantage, all you need to do is go to ultimatehealthpodcast.com/organifi. Again, that URL is ultimatehealthpodcast.com/organifi and Organifi ends in an I. Go and get yourself some of the green juice powder today and make it a staple in your home.

Marni: And now a shout out to other show partner Beekeeper’s Naturals. And one of the products that we love from Beekeeper’s, there are so many, but one that stands out is the nootropic. And why this product is so special is because it gives your body and your brain a booze without any caffeine or any unnatural stimulants. And it’s also totally Keto friendly. There is no sugar in it. It is super clean, super easy to take. It comes in a little glass vial, you just open up the cap, throw it back, and it’s such a great way to go into an interview, to go into a conference, to go meet some friends to go out for the night. It gives you that boost and you feel great. So if you haven’t tried the B.LXR nootropic get your hands on it today. It is an awesome way to boost your brain.

Jesse: As a listener of our show, you get 15% off the whole Beekeeper’s lineup and to take advantage, all I need to do is go to ultimatehealthpodcast.com/beekeepers again, that URL is ultimatehealthpodcast.com/beekeepers on top of your 15% discount. If you spend $60 or more, you get free shipping, go and get yourself some of the B.LXR nootropic today. This stuff will help you beat your brain fog. And now back to our chat Drew. And I think it’s important we talk about in the beginning when somebody is switching to ketosis and they’re embracing a diet of the style that they’re going to initially lose a lot of water, and with that goes a lot of minerals. So talk about what’s happening there and what we can do to prevent becoming deficient in these minerals.

Drew: This is probably the biggest mistake I see people make on Keto is they don’t do their own research. They just jump into it thinking it’s butter, bacon and cheese all day long. And missing out on the electrolytes is one of the most important components because this is why some people experienced the Keto flu and then they think, oh man, I felt awful. You know, and they think Keto is not for them. So when you switch over to Keto, you eat mostly fat, your body does not retain as much water. So your bodies expelling a lot of water. But with that water that you’re losing, you’re losing out on a lot of the minerals as well. So sodium, potassium, magnesium mostly, which is why you feel awful. You feel the Keto flu, you feel lethargic, brain fog, lack of energy, cramping, dizziness, lightheadedness. I mean the list goes on and you just don’t feel optimal. So one, you need to drink more water when you’re on Keto. And then two, you need to replenish those electrolytes. And when I say electrolytes, I don’t mean Gatorade and Powerade people cause people think, oh, what else am I supposed to get my electrolytes in? So adding in salts, things like real salt. I’m a huge fan of Redmond, real salt. Uh, all the trace minerals are still intact. So getting in lots of sodium, about five to seven grams per day, which is about two teaspoons full adding it to your food. You know, you could take a shot. If you ever feel the Keto flu coming on, just take about a half teaspoon of salt, put it in the palm of your hand, look it and chug eight to 10 ounces of water afterwards and you’ll instantly feel better. Some people need to supplement with magnesium citrate or magnesium glycinate. Same thing with potassium as well. If they feel they’re a little bit off, you can get some of those from foods, but sometimes it might be, uh, essential to supplement with those things.

Jesse: And other than supplementing with these electrolytes, are there any other supplements you recommend for people doing ketosis?

Drew: There’s the ones that are not a necessary. These are the ones are not optional. These ones that are mandatory, the electrolytes. And on the Keto Diet, there’s things called exogenous ketones, which I mentioned before. Those put you in a simulated version of ketosis where they raise your blood ketone levels and you get a brain boost so you feel that mental clarity, you feel what it’s like to be in Ketosis. Let’s say you can’t adhere to the Keto diet, right? You love your carbohydrates. Well, you could take anxiety and as ketones get that bump and blood ketone levels feel that brain cognition improved, you know, you get that raise in blood ketone levels and so you, you kind of are in a simulated version of ketosis. And so it can be for that, it can be used for during those two weeks of transitioning. So you don’t experience the Keto flu. You could use it as a pre-workout depending on what type of workouts you’re doing. It’s a great pre-workout even though there’s not, in my brand, we don’t use stimulants like caffeine, but you, there are some with caffeine in them. Uh, you feel that, uh, increase in energy. It’s a different type of energy. But is that necessary? No, it’s optional.

Jesse: Can you talk about how taking exogenous ketones is different than nutritional ketosis.

Drew: When you’re in nutritional Ketosis, you are burning fat as fuel, right? You’re burning fat as energy and that’s what being in a ketogenic state is. When you get a bump in blood ketone levels above 0.5 that doesn’t mean that you’re burning more fat. You can even donut take uh, exogenous ketones and get a bump in blood ketone levels above 0.5 that doesn’t mean that you’re burning that fat off from the donut. So I want to make sure people understand that being in nutritional ketosis is from, let’s say you didn’t take exogenous ketones and you fasted or you’re eating a ketogenic diet. Naturally you’re getting a bump in blood ketone levels above 0.5 which means you are burning fat as fuel. That’s what nutritional ketosis is.

Marni: And you have a section in the book that is geared towards vegans and vegetarians who want to try on the Keto diet. So let’s talk about this and how they can do that.

Drew: Man. Yeah. I get so many people asking about a vegetarian version, a vegan version. So I said, you know what, I’m going to put a section in my book but just for those people because it just, it’s very common and you can do Keto a bunch of different ways. You could do it, Paleo version of it, vegetarian, a vegan version of it if you want. So I wanted to make it accessible to everybody. So I put a week long meal plan for vegetarians and vegans. Vegans its a lot harder because you’re already so restrictive on what you can’t eat. And this makes it even more restrictive because you got to take out grains and legumes for the most part and fruits. But there was a way to do it for sure. Vegetarians is a little bit easier cause you’re getting, if you eat eggs and maybe some fish you can get in more protein without getting in carbohydrates. But you know, I, I wanted to give people an option

Marni: And the way you’ve got other plans laid out is very simplified and really easy to follow for people. So I really liked the layout, but I also want to get into females. I know you’ve got a little, call it to females in the book too, because a lot of women do have a lot of, even for myself and other women that I’ve spoken to, a lot of fear around going into ketosis for their hormones, for fertility, for just overall health. And because men tend to from, you know, maybe seeing different books and in different videos seem to get into ketosis a lot faster, a lot easier. So what are the differences and how can it benefit women?

Drew: Yeah, so for women, this is what a lot of people struggle with is because hormonally and physiologically women are different, right? And so I always tell people the first and foremost talk to your doctor. And the interesting thing with the book is we actually geared all the meal plans towards women. We, we made them for women. And then for a man, we just said, hey, adjust the calories because we wanted to make this for women. Now, the thing with ketosis, like from an evolutionary standpoint, you don’t need to be in ketosis forever. So as a woman, I think from what I’ve anecdotal evidence of people, you know, followers and clients of mine and then talking to other doctors in this industry, anecdotally, you know, women tend to do better cycling in and out. You know, maybe on the week of their cycle they add in more carbohydrates doesn’t mean they need to necessarily get kicked out of ketosis, but they add in things like dark chocolate or fruits during that week. So a healthier sources of carbs. It doesn’t mean you need to go ham on the junk food, but increase your carbohydrates maybe to 50 grams and see how you feel, test your blood ketone levels and see if you feel better during your cycle during that week because hormonally there’s gonna be some shifts into your nutritional needs. And so, but I don’t want to put, make this a one size fits all approach even for women. This is bio individual. Some women do fine fastings and eating a strict Keto around their cycle. Other women need more carbohydrates. And so that’s why I want you guys to listeners to do some testing, invest in a blood ketone monitor, but also go off with just how you feel, right? How do you feel as well? Maybe get some blood work done and talk to your doctor about it before jumping into it. And like I said, do your research before you just jump in thinking you’re eating butter, bacon and cheese all day long.

Marni: And I think another limitation around Keto eating is yeah, how to do it socially. How do you eat out being on Keto, you know when you’re in the compound of your kitchen, it’s so easy, you can pick exactly what to eat, you can control the oil, you know what’s on your plate. What can you share with people who are listening right now who are feeling like, I can’t go out to eat with my friends because Keto’s so limiting.

Drew: It’s all about perspective and your perception. Yes, it can be, but also one of the most easy diets to follow depending on how you want to look at it. And I go out plenty of times and people are like, Oh, you know, I know you’re the Keto guy. Like that’s cute right there. It just depends on on where you go on what’s available to you. But if you are eating out, it is super easy nowadays with and the society we live in, you know if you are vegan or you’re gluten free or paleo or Keto restaurants are so accommodating. You could say, hey, give me that burger. Just take off the buns and no fries at an extra veggies add in an egg and bacon and avocado on top of that burger and I’m good to go. Right? Or give me the Cobb salad no croutons, dressing on the side or bring your own dressing, olive oil vinegar, or you can even do extra ranch dressing if you want. It just depends, you know, on how you want to do Keto. But there’s so many options available and the food, it doesn’t taste like, you know, quote unquote diet food because you’re eating things like steak and bacon and sometimes heavy creams and cheeses and tons of vegetables, butter and you know, lots of salts. So the food does taste good.

Jesse: And we talked about how your initial program in the book is 30 days, but after that 30 day program you also give three different protocols in the book. And one of them is the cyclical Keto diet. And now while we’re on the subject of eating out, I could see how this could fit into going out and being social and including more carbs. Because with this part of the diet, when you get into this phase, you’re doing Keto from Monday to Friday or Monday to Saturday and then you’re having lower fat, higher carb days on the weekend. So I just think that could fit if somebody is being more social on the weekend and they’e at that point were they maybe wanting to be more cyclical?

Drew: Yeah. And the only caveat here is to, if you are going to do the cyclical Keto diet, which is great for more of a balanced approach to adding more carbohydrates on the weekends or for special occasion to add in, you know those carbs that you want is to make sure and get keto adapted first. So do the 30 day program first before you just try the cyclical Keto diet. Because if you just jump in and do six days on one day off, you never really allowing your body to become efficient or adapted. Because when you do that high carb day, you’re getting knocked out of ketosis. And so if you haven’t been adapted for a long period of time yet your body doesn’t know how to get back in efficiently to ketosis. And so you might struggle. So get adapted first and foremost before you mess around with either the cyclical Keto diet where you, you add in carbs once or twice a week or a targeted, you know, diet for athletes and you can add in carbs pre and post workout or an intermittent keto diet, which is if you want to do Keto as a reset or a detox once or twice a year for 30 days, that’s a great method as well. And I, I call that the intermittent Keto diet.

Jesse: And when it comes to the recipes in your book and just in general, what are the Keto approved sweeteners? What can people use if they’re making different recipes or different things at home.

Drew: You’re trying to be sugar free and you’re limiting glucose. So Keto approved sweeteners would be things like Stevia, erythritol, monk fruit is another good one. [inaudible] is another popular one out there. Um, but I will say this, those are the healthier ones. It’s very individual because people ask me all the time, well, can I have this, can have diet soda, can I have these diet energy drinks? Like Bang, or can I have this candy? That’s sugar free, you know, that uses, you know, maltitol or whatever. It’s very individual. So it’s not a one size fits all approach. So even with Stevia, even with monk fruit, I would say test your blood ketones before and after. And that’s what’s so cool about the Keto Diet. And if you have a blood ketone monitor is you could prove to see if that affected you or not pricking your finger. But those are the ones that I would say are pretty common that are pretty safe, would be Stevia, monk, fruit, erythritol, and [inaudible].

Jesse: And while we’re on the subject of sweeteners and spiking your blood sugar, you talk about how you recommend a powdered green supplement versus actually drinking green juice. So talk about that.

Drew: Yeah, cause this could be lower in carbohydrates and most people tend to add in fruits to make their green juice more palatable. So it tastes sweeter because the vegetables, let’s be honest, they don’t taste great by themselves sometimes. And so if you’re just using vegetables, I’d be okay with that. But the, the green powder still gives you those phytonutrients that your body needs without the added sugars or carbohydrates sometimes that juicing can do, just depends. If you’re in control of it and you’re juicing it then cool. But if you buy these from the store, sometimes slide and half slice of an apple or something that could just sweeten it slightly. So just gotta be careful.

Jesse: And what are your thoughts about snacking between meals? Is this something that’s even going to be a problem once we’re in Ketosis or something we’re even thinking about? Or are there certain snacks that are safer having in between meals?

Drew: Yeah. You know, I tell people to try not to snack but also to listen to your body. So if you’re starving, it’s a sign that your body is hungry, like go ahead and eat. But I think what surprises people is they find that they are not hungry as often. They stay fuller longer throughout the day cause you’re eating. When you add in fats and protein together, that’s very satiating. It’s hard to overeat that it’s super easy to overeat carbohydrates like popcorn and chips. You know what I’m saying? Um, it’s a really easy to over consume that, but your body will let you know if you’ve had too much fat and protein and you won’t feel starving, you know, like two hours later. Like if I had a big bowl of cinnamon toast crunch, I might feel full for a minute, but eventually I’m gonna feel starving again. Hangry right on Keto people don’t experience that. So I don’t recommend snacks. But if, let’s say you’re on the go, which, you know, I travel a ton, the cool thing is that, you know, we live in a society now where we have all these convenience foods and now that Keto is popular, you have things like Keto cakes, and Keto cookies and Keto donuts and these single serving pouches of fat on the go, you know, nut butters or MCT oil or olive oil or coconut oil. And you could take it with you on the go. You know, things like string cheese or they make these cheese crisps now, which are just baked cheese pretty much. You can find it almost, uh, you know, even at the airports I traveled to a bunch of airports. They have these parmesan crisps that you can buy. You know, there’s things out there if you do need a snack.

Drew: And another tool on your tool belt is doing an extended fast. And you talk about doing a couple of these a year where you go three to seven days of fasting. First of all, is this just on water and why do you do it?

Drew: Yeah, so I read this book called The Complete Guide to Fasting and I’ve had Doctor Jason Fung on before talking about the benefits of fasting from a scientific perspective but also mental, emotional, spiritual side of fasting that was overlooked sometimes. And our generation, our parents generation, we’ve never really had to go without food. If you grew up in a first world country, you’ve probably been able to, you know, have three square meals a day. I know I have and a lot of other people have. So it never really experienced what it’s like to go without food. And you know, our ancestors didn’t have Uber eats or a grocery store. And so it’s great to mimic that if you can, you know, maybe just doing a 24 hour fast and seeing how you feel is great to one, get rid of that obsession with food and feeling like you have to have it all the time and being free of food, controlling you, but then also from a spiritual component and mentally to say, hey, I can still function as a parent, as a work. You know, if you have a job and employee, a friend, I can still function as a human being even if I don’t have food. Like it’s so funny people end up loving it cause they’re like, wow, I have so much more free time during the day. You know, I don’t feel cranky. There mood swings are, you know, so much different and they loved the way they feel and they like to do it maybe once a quarter, once every six months just to kind of be aware that you don’t need food all the time.

Marni: So Drew, we’ve given so much value. Before we wrap up. One question we like to ask all of our guests is, what is ultimate health mean to you?

Drew: Ultimate health for me isn’t just physical health. I think sometimes the health and fitness industry, you know, people come to us for physical health, like I want to be skinny, I want to look great, you know, want to, you know, reverse my type two diabetes, whatever it is. If you focus on that and you’re the healthiest person in the world, but mentally, emotionally, spiritually, you’re struggling, you don’t love yourself, you’ll find that that physical health that you once thought would bring happiness, you realize that there’s more to life than this and there’s more to fulfillment than that. And so complete transformation or complete health for me is physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. So putting in the work for those things. So yes, you work out and you eat healthy for your physical health, but also there’s things you need to do on the mental, emotional, spiritual side to feed that part of you so that you are fulfilled and that you’re the most complete version of yourself possible.

Marni: Perfect. Great Way to end and other than our listeners getting a copy of your book Complete Keto, where else and how else can they connect with you?

Drew: Yeah, just follow me at Fit2Fat2Fit. That’s the name of my all my social media handles, my website, my first book, my TV show, my podcast. Yeah, you’ll be able to find my new book, Complete Keto on there as well.

Jesse: Awesome.. Drew, we’re going to link everything up over on our website at ultimatehealthpodcast.com and I just want to thank you for coming on the show. This has been great and keep doing what you’re doing.

Drew: Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate you having me on.

Marni: Thanks Drew. What a great episode with Drew. So much take away information that you can apply right away into your life about Keto eating and about mindset. So go ahead and let us know what you think today’s show over on Instagram. Be sure to tag @fit2fat2fit and @ultimatehealthpodcast. Let us know what you think. Take a screenshot and give us some love and hopefully you’re listening to the episode on our APP. We have an exclusive app that’s available on your iPhone as well as on your Android. So to get a copy go to ultimatehealthpodcast.com/apple or ultimatehealthpodcast.com/android these apps are totally free and totally available for you. So go ahead and get one today.

Jesse: For full show notes be sure and head over to ultimatehealthpodcast.com/299 we have links there to everything we discussed and a nice show summary, so be sure and check that out. And now for each and every episode we’re putting out a free downloadable worksheet. So head over to the show notes, download your worksheet, and this has extra information that goes along with the episode. Oftentimes practical stuff you can apply to your week to take your health to the next level. Before we let you go, I want to give some love to our editor and engineer Jase Sanderson over at podcasttech.com Jase you do such a great job putting the show together and we really appreciate it. And this week’s fun fact about Jase is that he’s recently been trying St John’s wort tea as a way to calm down at night during a busy work week. Marni and I are big fans of having tea before bed, and our go-to is Tulsi or Holy Basil. We just love it and it totally makes us feel calm and ready for a good sleep. Have an awesome week. We’ll talk soon. Take care.

Disclaimer: This is a raw transcript and it may contain some errors. To listen to the complete audio interview, go to ultimatehealthpodcast.com/299.