298: Kate Northrup – Do Less, Surrender Your Control, Yoga Nidra

Kate: Our worth is determined by how much we achieve and how much we do. And that is because we just live in a very achievement oriented society that has us tapped into a system that is all externally referenced.

Jesse: Hello and welcome to The Ultimate Health Podcast episode 298 Jesse Chappus here with Marni Wasserman and we are here to take your health to the next level.

Marni: Each week we will bring you inspiring and informative conversations about health and wellness. Covering topics of nutrition, lifestyle, fitness, mindset and so much more.

New Speaker: And this week we are speaking with Kate Northrup an entrepreneur, bestselling author, speaker and mother that has built a multimedia digital empire with their husband that reaches hundreds of thousands globally. Her work has been featured by The Today Show, Women’s Health, The Huffington Post, and more. Kate lives with her husband and their daughters’ in a cozy town in Maine. Her latest book is Do Less: A Revolutionary Approach to Time and Energy Management for Busy Moms. And this is the book we based todays show around.

Marni: And this episode really resonated with me as not only am I female but I’m an entrepreneur and I can feel so much of what Kate talks about in this book of how doing less is actually more. It’s not always about the hustle, but rather slowing down and having a deep knowing that things are still going to get done and if you’re a male listening, don’t turn the episode off. There is so much to take away from this episode, especially if you’re in a relationship, so definitely keep listening and here is what we get into in today’s show. We talk about what prompted Kate to start slowing down, how to reorganize your workflow, what receiving help versus asking for help looks like, what a money love date is, the benefits of Yoga Nidra, Kate’s weekly versus daily to-do list, living simply versus minimalism, and how to cultivate communities. Such a well rounded episode. Really excited for this. Here we go with Kate Northrup.

Jesse: Hello Kate, welcome to the podcast. It’s so great to chat with you.

Kate: Hi. Thanks for having me.

Marni: We’re so excited to have you and we’ve got lots to talk about. You’ve got an awesome book out, Do Less and we’re going to get into so many things do less. But let’s start with how this whole concept came to be. You were pregnant with your first daughter, Penelope. Your body it was asking you to slow down in a way that you had never experienced. So how did you react to this? What was going on in your mind?

Kate: I was shocked. It was the first time in my life that I had ever had some, you know, kind of a roadblock that I couldn’t just push harder to get past. It was very weird every other time, whether it was a physical thing or a work thing, I could just do more and fix it. And this is the first time I couldn’t, like there was literally nothing I could do to feel better. So I just had to rest.

Jesse: So what were you feeling specifically?

Kate: It’s very hard to describe it. I’ve never experienced anything else like it. I was just really, really tired. I just like could do things for a couple of hours a day and that was it. And then by about two in the afternoon or earlier, I just needed to lie down and I’m a very energetic person. So it was bizarre.

Marni: And at what point in your pregnancy did you experience this? Was this early on or middle?

Kate: It was probably from about 18-20 weeks on. We went on a one month honeymoon at the very beginning of my pregnancy, you know, maybe when I was like 12 to 15 weeks, something like that. Even then I was sleeping a lot and lying down a lot.

Jesse: Where did you guys go?

Kate: It was quite an adventure. We went to Dubai and Thailand and the Maldives.

Jesse: Wow very adventurous.

Kate: It was, you know my husband is a travel hacker. So he had, you know, over the years figured out the whole points and loyalty program things. So he, we got the whole trip for like way less than it should have cost.

Jesse: And talk about how throughout your life you’re someone who likes to take action as a way to prove your worth.

Kate: Yeah, so that is something that I come by honestly and that I’ve worked quite diligently on unraveling. It’s something that’s part of our cultural programming, which is that our worth is determined by how much we achieve and how much we do. And that is because we just live in a very achievement oriented society that has us tapped into a system that is all externally referenced. M’seaning we’re taught to look outside ourselves to see if we’re doing okay. And all the systems outside of us are organized according to what degrees do you have, how much money do you have in the bank, what kind of achievements have you racked up? And so most of us have this internal programming that is, if I’m not striving to do more, if I’m not achieving enough than therefore I’m not valuable. And that really doesn’t serve us because it has most people overworking. And when we’re not working, obsessing that we should be doing more. And it generates a constant underlying feeling of not being enough, which is pretty devastating to feel that way for an entire lives time.

Jesse: And you grew up in a household where your parents would work, work, work throughout your entire childhood. So what role does this play in how you turned out?

Kate: Well, you know, I do think that we are all products of our upbringing and then at some point we have to decide to transcend our childhood. So I will say that I’ve made a choice to start to deprogram myself and I think we all have a moment where we can choose to do this where we say, okay, yes, this is true about my childhood. My parents did work all the time. I was brought up to believe that the only thing that makes us valuable is hard work and putting in the time and putting in the elbow grease and the effort. And yet I really don’t want my daughters to grow up thinking that their whole value and their whole life needs to be based on working all the time and being busy all the time. I want them to really know how to also enjoy just being alive. And know that like an afternoon spent hanging out, having a great time is just as valuable as an afternoon sitting in front of the computer, knocking out emails. So yes, that was my experience. Both of my parents are physicians and quite a bit of work is required to be a doctor. So I get that and I also really honour their careers and I just knew for me that I wanted more space to be with my family and more space to be with my kids then they had basically.

Jesse: So you’re pregnant with your first daughter, you start to slow down. What does that look like?

Kate: Well, it looked like taking a lot of naps. It looks like really reorganizing our workflow so that I was just doing the bare minimum to keep things going in our business, in our company. It really meant renegotiating priorities to say, okay, we can’t do all the projects right, so what actually needs to happen and what is an accessory that doesn’t actually need to happen? I run my company with my husband and you know, in the United States we don’t have any paid family leave. In a few states there’s a little support, but not where we live in Maine. So we needed to get the same results financially even though we were working less during pregnancy. And certainly during that first year of parenthood. And so we just had to reorganize and figure out like how can we get these same results by doing less? And to be perfectly honest with you, it wasn’t a conscious thought. It wasn’t until we realized in retrospect that we had gotten the same results revenue wise, that we knew that we had reorganized. But I have to be honest, it kind of happened by accident.

Jesse: And take us through what it is you guys do.

Kate: Yeah, so we had a company, a, we have a podcast, we have um, I write a weekly blog, I’m an author, obviously. My first book was Money, A Love Story. My second book is Do Less. I do speaking and we run online courses and we have a membership called Origin for that’s about time and energy management for female entrepreneurs. And my husband also does some small business consulting sometimes.

Marni: Awesome. And Kate, you said that this happened by accident, so basically you’re saying that in the months, years before you got pregnant, you probably couldn’t see that this is something you would ever do.

Kate: Well, you know what, it’s so interesting. I will say backing up, like when I was 18 I started a business in the direct selling industry in network marketing with a nutrition company and that’s actually how I met my husband. And I had started that business because I had the vision and a dream that one day I would be able to stay home with my kids and not need to work. I wanted to create enough residual income to make that a reality. And it was such an interesting experience because during my pregnancy I didn’t really know. Of course you you’ve no idea what it’s going to be like to be a parent and so I didn’t know if maybe I was going to not want to work. I didn’t know, you know, I had planned a three month maternity leave, but I didn’t know beyond that what life was going to look like. And so I thought maybe I would be a stay at home mom or I just didn’t know when I was open to what might happen. And what was interesting is I found out about five weeks postpartum, I started to get the itch to work again and I was actually surprised and I felt immediately guilty about it. Because, I don’t know, I feel like there’s a message that we get certainly for mothers like that motherhood should be this all fulfilling, all encompassing experience and that if we want to do something else besides be mothers, that somehow that’s like not okay. I don’t know why I have that idea because I was definitely raised by a working mom, so I’m not sure where it came from, but it’s floating out there somewhere. And I’ve talked to other women who also have this idea thinking that like if they want to do something other than be with their kids 24/7 that they think somehow they’re failing as a mother. And I started feeling that way. There was the mom guilt. It showed up at five weeks postpartum.

Marni: And I think it goes the other way too, is that the moms who choose to be with their kids feel like maybe they’re letting their business down or their team down and they’re not doing what they should be doing in the work field or proven themselves as an entrepreneur or someone who’s contributing to a company. So guilt in general, let’s just talk about guilt and how we can unravel this and not let it guide us in such a negative way.

Kate: Well, it really, guilt has to do with an outside expectation of how we think we should be doing or how we think it should look and then not doing it that way. So there’s a difference between the guilt that comes from doing something that you know was wrong. Right? There are times when like let’s say I snap at my husband and I say something or I lose it with my daughter and I feel bad about that. I feel guilty about that. Well, that’s an emotion. That’s a feeling that might inspire me to have a repair moment with them and say, you know, hey, remember how I snapped at you this morning? I’m so sorry. And so I can repair that, but there’s this other kind of guilt that’s actually, you know, I’ve decided to go back to work at three months, for example, and I thought I was going to maybe want to be a stay at home mom, but now I’m actually finding that the experience is different than I thought and now I’m making a different choice than I expected. I think that kind of guilt doesn’t really serve us because we’re going to make the choice anyway, so it really then it becomes about being proud of our choices and seeing that, yeah, of course there’s always payoffs, right? There’s always payoffs in our decisions, but knowing that we consciously chose those payoffs, for me, it helps me to unravel that guilt. That’s pretty unproductive.

Jesse: It’s interesting. Kate, it seems like there’s a lot of similarities between you and your husband, Mike working together and me and Marni working together and I’m just curious how much of a factor do you think it was in letting you slow down having Mike there as a business partner?

Kate: Well, I think certainly during pregnancy it was a huge factor in that he was able to hold things together, but during the transition into parenthood, we were both experiencing this thing that completely rocked our worlds and we didn’t have childcare for the first three months and then after that we had 10 hours a week of childcare. So he and I were both in the same boat in that we were 50/50 parenting and also running our company. My husband is incredibly like he’s a total true partner. I almost even hate to say that he’s so supportive because it makes it seem as though like I’m somehow leading and he’s supporting like we really are doing things together. I definitely know that that was a huge factor in allowing me to do less and also allowing him to do less in certain ways because it is a dance. My husband actually got really sick this past year after the birth of our second daughter. He was nonfunctional and he was sick for quite a long time. And I was in a position where I really needed to hold everything together in a way that he did in the postpartum period after our first daughter. And then, you know, it’s sort of like the ball was tossed to me when he went down, I was able to be strong and when I go down he’s able to be strong. And that is really a beautiful thing.

Marni: And do you have any suggestions for people who may not be in this position where a partner is working full time or they’re on off schedules?

Kate: Absolutely. And also definitely for single parents. There’s so many scenarios where we don’t have that partnership and I would say looking for ways to create it. So there’s a wonderful book by Tiffany Dufu called Drop The Ball where she talks about creating an all in partnership with her husband when he was actually working overseas. So she was parenting her children on her own and he was in a different country and I just love the suggestions that she gives, one of which is they made a list of absolutely everything that needed to be done to keep their family, their household, their kids, everything working. And then he did all of the things that he could do from a way. So just they really busted the idea that like you have to be physically together in order to be supportive of one another. To the degree that he even was calling the super to replace a broken faucet from Dubai and they were living in New York City. I think we really need to think outside the box for, okay, well if I don’t have a partner whose able to be present physically, how can they be present virtually because hello, we have so many ways of being connected these days. And then also if I don’t have a partner for whatever reason, how can I build that support structure? We all need scaffolding. When my husband was extremely sick for a long period of time and I was taking care of the girls, taking care of the house, and taking care of our business all by myself, I really leaned on my neighbors. Like literally the people who live across the street from me and next door to me. I tapped into the village because I needed it and I’m so grateful that they were there to be able to support that. Again, like when they’ve had moments in their families of hardship, we’ve been able to be there for them as well and I think that even though we are such like a high tech society and we don’t necessarily have to talk to our neighbors and build those connections, I actually think we do because we need each other more than we think. We are really interdependent humans. Our wellbeing and our happiness and our sense of belonging does depend on having those real, true connections of people to lean on.

Marni: And it goes to show that it really does take a village or a community and there is always gonna be someone available, whether it’s a parent, an aunt, a neighbor, a friend. If you’re a single parent, there’s always going to be someone who can help you, whether it’s with parenting or just in life, you know, going through a rough time. So it actually brings me to a point that you bring up in your book, which is about receiving help and asking for help, which is so important. I think so many women have a challenge with this. Being able to take in that help and also to ask for help. So let’s get into this. The difference between the two and how we can embrace these.

Kate: So receiving help is when help is offered to say yes. You know, there’s so many moments. You know, my girlfriend texted me the other day and I was just describing, you know, we had a lot on our plate that day and she was like, you know, can I pick up groceries for you or is there anything I can do? And I was reminded of how often, because still, still, even though I do this work still my knee jerk is to say no, I’ve got it. Because we’ve all been raised to believe that our own independent resiliency and ability to do everything is a badge of honor is what makes us valuable. But the truth is our vulnerability and our ability to say, hey, I actually don’t have, this is one of our greatest strengths because when we’re not sourcing our value and our self worth from our doing this, it really shows that we’re in touch with who we truly are, which is so far beyond our ability to check off items on a to do list. And I know a strong woman when I meet a woman who is willing to ask for help because I know that she really knows who she is and her confidence is not built on the shaky foundation of proving how much she can do. So receiving the help that’s offered, it can be as simple as when somebody offers to open the door for you, you say thank you. Or when somebody says, Hey, can I help you with your bag? You say, that would be great, thanks. And I really, really, really recommend receiving help even when you technically don’t need it because it builds a muscle of, oh wow, life doesn’t have to be so hard. And oh wow, look at all the help around me. And oh, let me practice expanding my receptor sites for receiving so that I notice more and more when help is offered to me and I’m more and more available for that. I really do believe it’s a muscle that we can strengthen and it’s an opening and an expansion. So that’s receiving help. And then asking for help is sort of the other side of that which is noticing that you’re going to need some help and then asking for it. The better we are at receiving help, the better we are at asking for help in the better we are at asking for help, the better we are at receiving it and so it’s two things to practice but they come down to the fundamental knowing that your worth is not determined by your ability to do everything by yourself. That has nothing to do with your worthiness as a human being. Our worthiness as human beings is who we are not what we do and if you are somebody who has trouble asking for help, you’re overly identified with what you do and so I would recommend just taking a look at that and then just practicing. I recommend asking for help early, often, and kindly. Because when we ask for help early, meaning we notice, oh for example we are in a childcare transition in our household right now. I know that I am going to need help with one of my daughters’ two weeks from now because my husband and I have regular scheduling meetings. I know that upfront because I’ve looked ahead at the schedule and I’ve already asked what I call my extended grandmothers circle, which includes my mother, my bonus mom and my best friend’s mother for help and this is a date that’s two weeks away because I know it’s easier for me to be helped when I ask early. And then asking often means you’re just strengthening that muscle of asking so that when you ask for help you don’t feel like you’re doing it as a last resort. You’re not doing it because you think you failed. You’re just doing it because you’re human and human beings need each other. And then kindly, if you ask early and if you ask often, it’s easier to do it kindly because you’re not having an emergency.

Jesse: Now we’re going to take a quick break from our chat with Kate to give a shout out to our brand new show partner Outerknown.

Marni: We are so excited to be partnered with a clothing company and not just any clothing company, a company that has a mission to create quality, sustainable clothing. And you can tell because you can feel how durable it is. It fits well and they have a mission to create clothing that doesn’t harm the environment. And Jesse and I were lucky enough to receive some of their clothing and I have to say that I’ve had a lot of clothes over the years and the way clothing feels on my body is so comfortable. The fabric moves quite a bit and it’s beautiful to wear and I have some new variety now. I’ve got things that I wouldn’t normally wear. It got this cute little jumpsuit that is going to be perfect for the summer months and a lot of their clothing is inspired by beachwear summerwear. It’s got this really rustic bohemian vibe and it totally suits mine and Jesse’s lifestyle, who we are. And when we are supporting this clothing out in public, we are going to feel so good. We already do. I’m wearing the hoodie right now and I don’t think I want to take it off so they have both men’s and women’s clothing. And I am so excited to have them partnering with our show because it’s nice to have clothing that fits within the whole ultimate health vibe and we are all about quality and this clothing is exactly that.

Jesse: We’re so excited about this brand new partnership and you should be too because as a listener of our show, you get 25% off your order and to take advantage, all you need to do is go to outerknown.com again, that URL is outerknown.com and Outerknown is spelled o u t e r k n o w n. And to get your 25% off, all you need to do is enter the code at checkout “ultimatehealth”. Again, that code is “ultimatehealth”. I’m wearing my brand new salmon coloured golf shirt right now from them. If feels comfortable, looks great. There was so much on the website I wanted, I can’t wait to go back on there and put another order together. You’re going to love their stuff.

Marni: And now a shout out to other show partner Organifi. Organifi has just launched a brand new product called Glow, which is organic collagen support. And what this does is it helps to naturally boost collagen, smooth any fine lines and wrinkles, protect the skin from sun exposure and toxins and naturally moisturize the skin. And this is a perfect product for the summer months because our skin takes on so much from the heat and the sun. And if you can hydrate your skin from the inside out, the Glow is there to do that. And some of the ingredients that it has is tremella mushroom, amla, rosehip, aloe and silica. Really nourishing herbs and the taste is got this raspberry lemon flavor. So get onboard, go and get yourself the Glow. I would hurry before it sells out because whenever Organifi launches a new product, it sells out really fast. So go ahead and get the Glow.

Jesse: As listeners of our show, you get 20% off the whole Organfi lineup. And to take advantage, all you need to do is go to ultimatehealthpodcast.com/organifi, again, that URL is ultimatehealthpodcast.com/organifi. And Organifi ends in an i. All the ingredients and all the Organifi products are incredible. We love this company and we know you will too. And now back to our chat with Kate.

Marni: And as someone who’s grown up, very stubborn. You know, I grew up for many years saying, no, no, no, I can do it myself. But having business, my own business, I ran a cooking school for many years and having that grow and having staff under me that taught me the art of delegation and it taught me how things can get done faster and better. So that was kind of my learning in that with, you know, something kind of forced upon me that taught me how to let go. But I think it comes down to this feeling of being weak, you know, as as a woman, probably a lot of men even more so maybe when they’re asking for help or when we’re asking for help, it’s a sign of weakness. What is that?

Kate: That is a culture that has raised us to believe that are worth is in how much we do. It’s the same fricking thing. And we just have to notice it and we just have to decide, do I want to base my worth on how much I do or do I want to base my worth on who I am? And it’s a choice. It really is a choice. And so it’s a choice that we rechoose all the time. I mean this is deep programming and we really have to choose to transcend it and live from a different place. Because if you are living from a place where your worth is determined by what you do, you will be exhausted forever and you will never have a sense that you have done enough versus who you are. Well then who you are is who you are. You don’t have to do something to be more of who you are, you just are who you are and then you can do what you do from a place of wholeness as opposed to from a place of trying to prove something.

New Speaker: Kate you touched on scheduling and I know you’re a fan of over communication when it comes to scheduling. So what do you mean by this?

Kate: MMM, so this is a, particularly in my marriage and in our company and then also with our childcare providers, you know, with my mother, I mean just anybody else that I’m interacting with, I’ll over communicate with my children. When they’re old enough, it’ll probably drive them crazy. Um, but every Sunday night, for example, my husband and I have a scheduling meeting. It takes like 10 minutes. It’s not that big of a deal. But we have a rule in our marriage that we have shared Google calendars. So his calendar is on my calendar. Mine is in purple, his is in yellow. And so I see all of the appointments on Mike’s calendar and he sees mine. But if one of us needs the other person to be at one of those appointments, we have to send them a calendar invite and then on Sunday nights we also talk through the schedule because what we have found is even with the shared calendar, even with the Google calendar invite rule, there are still things that we miss and when we talk about scheduling on the Sunday night, we usually go out about 10 days so that we’ve talked through every day. Okay, who’s getting the kids? Do we need a babysitter here? Oh whoops, I forgot to send you a calendar invite. I actually need you at that meeting. Oh Hey did you notice you double booked yourself for this thing? Like hat kind of thing. It just really is going upstream on potential miscommunications, which really are the breakdown of relationships. I’m not saying we save ourselves all the drama because we certainly get into little things every now and again, but we save ourselves a lot of the drama by having that Sunday night communication and also having that shared Google calendar.

Jesse: And you guys are good about making sure have date nights and spending time together without the kids. So is this something you’re booking in ahead of time in the calendar?

Kate: Yes, absolutely. So usually on a Sunday night, if it’s been awhile since we’ve had a date, like you know, two weeks or so, or if we’ve just been through a period like a, we went on a six day trip to Texas with our kids and after that it was just like, you know what? I think we need a babysitter. Like let’s get a babysitter, let’s go do something. Just the two of us, let’s go to dinner or whatever it usually we go to dinner and a movie. It’s like not that wild and exciting. It works for us and it gives us a chance to just be with the two of us. I know some couples who have like a standing Tuesday night, date night. It doesn’t really work like that with us, but we do things like every summer we have seasons tickets to a local theater. So that’s like a baked in date night during the summer and things like that. So we do it like usually about once every two weeks works for us.

Jesse: Nice. And talk about your weekly money love date.

Kate: Mm, yes. So every Friday at noon we get together and it’s a standing date again with me and my husband. We use a system called YNAB, which is a software it stands for, you need a budget in combination with a system called Profit First. The money love date came from my first book Money, A Love Story. And we’ve been doing this for years where we sit down every Friday and we look at what we have, what expenses are coming up, what inflows are coming in, allocating the money. So doing transfers each week into taxes, savings, owners pay and profits. And we just spend some time with our money, looking at our expenses, paying credit cards, things like that. Setting goals, seeing how our revenue is doing with our goals. And we are really in like deep relationship with our money, with each other. And we know what we’re spending, we know what we’re earning, we know you know, all of it. And I think that financial intimacy has helped us clear out a lot of our own money baggage because each week we have an opportunity to sit together and look at the truth of our financial situation and notice what emotions come up and then talk about them and clear them out. Like I’m really about prevention as much as possible. And I think these weekly meetings allow us to prevent giant blow ups over time. And the money meeting takes about 30 minutes each week.

Marni: That’s really inspiring and amazing. And I love that you put a positive spin on something that can be really like grueling and daunting for probably a lot of couples. You know, look, let’s look at our money, let’s figure out what we’re spending on like you, you’re making it into this kind of fun, sexy thing. So I think that’s a really awesome idea.

Kate: And also because we have these goals and we see ourselves making progress towards our goals each week, it feels like a game. Like I get so excited to sit down and look at and then distribute our revenue into the different categories and see how much closer we are towards our goals. It’s kind of like a video game, it’s fun.

Jesse: And I think it’s important to point out to Kate the fact that this doesn’t come naturally to you guys. So you talk about this in your book where it’s something you’ve had to work at and that’s inspiring for the other people out there listening to this who don’t necessarily have a great relationship with money at this point.

Kate: Yeah, I mean, I don’t think anybody has a great relationship with money, you know, naturally. No, I think, you know, probably babies, right? Like, you know, prior to earning money and being in relationship. But money can be a very tricky topic was we’re not supposed to talk about it and it’s shoved under the rug and none of us were really educated about it properly. So money is tricky, but anybody can create a great relationship with money. I really do believe that and the best way to do it, just like if you want to create a great relationship with your kids or your spouse is to spend time with your money and show up with an open mind and an open heart regularly.

Jesse: Well, while we’re on the topic of scheduling, you also make it a priority to make time with your friends on a regular basis. So talk about why that’s important and how you go about making that a thing.

Kate: MMM, yeah, I just, I love friends. I love my girlfriends. I have a fewer guy friends, but I do love them as well. And I think that I don’t want to put all my relationship eggs in my marriage basket. I do not expect Mike to fill me up intellectually, emotionally, with humor, intimacy wise, like it’s just too much for one relationship. And I know that I’m a multifaceted being he’s a multifaceted beings. We are better together when we’re filling our cups in other places as well. So at least once a week, maybe every two weeks. But I try to make it once a week. I’ll go on a walk with a girlfriend, have a Skype tea date, go out for dinner with a girlfriend, spend a weekend with girlfriends. Like I have a local mastermind that I’ve been part of for four and a half years. I always clear my schedule and prioritize that. I think in four and a half years I’ve maybe missed it like three times. One of those times I was in labor, so I just, I make it a priority because I feel like more of myself when I spend time with my girlfriends and I know that when I feel more like myself, my business thrives. I’m more productive, I get better ideas. My marriage thrives and I’m a better mother because I’m happier.

Jesse: You talk about being an aspiring meditator. What do you mean by this?

Kate: I have to say I’m really happy to report. I am an actual meditator now, not as much of an aspiring meditator. I always prepped, practiced mindfulness, whether it’s breathing at a stoplight, whether its calming my thoughts when I’m angry, you know, whether it’s just taking a couple minutes to be in downward dog during the day or close my eyes, feel my feet on the ground, but I didn’t really have like a set meditation practice. But ever since Do Less came out. I have been meditating regularly. It’s super simple sitting with my eyes closed, breathing for about 10 minutes. It’s no big deal, but it’s a big deal in terms of how much more internal space I have and I’m really able to calm the anxiety around feeling like I need to do more or feeling, you know, comparison or whatever other nasty thoughts we have in our minds. It’s been wonderful to work on that practice and make more space for it because I noticed, and this has been an ongoing theme in my life, it’s why I wrote Do Less. I noticed that I was keeping myself small by rushing and by skipping out on those moments of stillness and I think a lot of us do this. We certainly can’t hear our inner voice if we’re always filling up the space with other things. So I’m creating daily that space to hear my inner voice in case it has anything to tell them.

Jesse: And do you do this first thing in the morning before bed?

Kate: I do it first thing in the morning. Well it’s not first thing in the morning. I am woken up by my 14 month old, so, um, in the morning at about 4:15 these days. So I do it after the girls that are sort of squared away with whatever they’re going to do for the day. So it’s usually right before I start my work day around 8:30 in the morning.

Jesse: And in the book you talk about a form of meditation called Yoga Nidra and you say this is the ultimate sleep hack. So tell us what this is.

Kate: Yeah. So yoga nidra was introduced to me when I was struggling with postpartum insomnia. I could not fall asleep even when my baby was sleeping which was torture because I was so tired but could not fall asleep. And my girlfriend introduced me to yoga nidra it’s a guided meditation practice that really takes your body into this altered state where you get incredibly deep rest in about 20 minutes and they say that it’s the kind of deep rest that would be the equivalent to about three hours of sleep. And I’ve personally experienced this like when I am so exhausted, but for whatever reason, like I’m solo parenting or I just don’t have time to, I don’t know. I mean there’s multiple reasons why I might not be able to get the kind of sleep I want to get and most of them have to do with parenting. But I will do a 20 minute yoga nidra meditation and it is amazing how revitalized I feel after that. Like I feel like I have taken a several hour nap just in 20 minutes, so I highly, highly recommend it.

Jesse: And what does this look like?

Kate: So it’s a laying down meditation. I really like Tracee Stanley’s Yoga Nidra meditations, but you can find all kinds of different ones online, you know, certainly for free on YouTube or buying them on iTunes or I’m sure if you did a search for yoga nidra on Google or in the hashtags on Instagram and Karen Brody also wrote a great book called Daring To Rest and she has some beautiful yoga nidra meditation’s. So I just lie down and I turn on the audio, it’s on my phone and then I just listened to the prompts of the voice. It usually includes some kind of body scan going through and then it just gives you directions and it really puts you in this altered rest state and in Daring To Rest, I also read, even if you are getting sleep, many of us are so depleted that we’re not dropping into those restorative levels of sleep. So we might be sleeping, but we’re not dropping into the deep, deep restorative sleep. And that if you practice yoga nidra during the day or before bed, it can actually assist you to get better rest when you are sleeping.

Marni: Ah, okay. I just was going to ask that if this is something that you can do during the day and before bed. So it seems like you can kind of do it whenever.

Kate: Yeah, whenever.

Marni: So I know sleep for you is a non negotiable. So how is your sleep these days? How is your nighttime routine and getting into a deep sleep? I know you have a 14 month old, but in general give us a snapshot of what sleep is like for you.

Kate: So here’s the thing. I am really about cyclical living and paying attention to the signals that our body is giving us. So last night for example, I felt deeply inspired to answer these journaling prompts that girlfriend had given me and it was late for me. It was 9:15 at night, which is not late for a lot of people. But for me, 9:15 is already past my bedtime. But I felt like doing it and I don’t often feel like doing things like that. So I’m a big believer in striking while the iron is hot, I always go to bed early unless I feel deeply compelled to do something. Now, by the way, I was still asleep by 9:50 so it wasn’t like a crazy night. But I always go to bed by 10, I a couple times a week request to sleep in, like to not be woken up by the baby. Mike is a super early riser. I’m very, very grateful for that. And he does wake up with the baby, but usually like once or twice a week he’ll let me sleep in I’m very, very grateful for that. Being on book tour and traveling a lot lately, I’m just a little extra tired, so I’m just trying to basically restore myself in whatever way I can. But minimum seven hours of sleep at night, I can’t function on less than seven. Eight is amazing. Nine is super dreamy, but that’s like not happening these days.

Marni: So you mentioned cycles and cyclical living and I love how you bring this into the book and how much cycles do play a role in our whole life? Everything from the seasons, to the months, to the moon, to our menstrual cycles. So let’s talk about how different phases affect our energy and our productivity.

Kate: Yeah. So I began studying this after my period came back after my first daughter Penelope. I was not particularly interested in this, you know, before that my period was just sort of like, it is what it is and I just take care of it. And it’s not awful, but it’s not awesome. But when my period came back, it felt like this return to myself as a woman as opposed to as a mother. You know, in motherhood I had sort of, I don’t want to say I lost my identity, but my identity shifted quite dramatically. So it was the signal that my body was coming back for me that I wasn’t like exclusively a home for this other person anymore. And also not like exclusively a sustenance source for this other person through nursing. So that was pretty cool. And I realized in my studying and in my reading that the menstrual cycle has these four particular phases and they exactly mirror the four phases of the lunar cycle and also exactly energetically the four seasons on the planet. And I thought, well, that is fascinating. Like these four energetic signatures are responsible for human life, are responsible for all of life on planet earth, and also for the way the moon works in essentially for gravity. So maybe I should start paying attention to them a little bit more. And so when I looked at these four phases, I realized, okay, I am very predictable throughout the month according to these four different types of energy. And they are the same energy as the season. So each month a woman will experience a personal winter, spring, summer, and fall. And throughout the day, a man experiences these four seasons. So men’s hormone cycle every 24 hours, women’s hormone cycle, every 28 days, both of them are quite predictable. But the world is set up of course, for a 24 hour cycle. And so a lot of us, as women have been told we’re unpredictable. We’re crazy, we’re, why can’t we just be the same as we were the day before? And we are just not built that way. And our genius is that we are very predictable over a longer period of time and we have to play a longer game. So I began to look at that and just track which phase of my menstrual cycle I was in and also what phase of the moon was in. Cause during a lot of this time I’ve been studying this, I’ve either been pregnant or nursing, so I haven’t actually had a cycle. So just know that if you’re listening and you don’t have a menstrual cycle because you’re a man or because you’ve had a hysterectomy or because you’re pregnant or menopausal, whatever. There’s so many reasons the moon does the same exact thing as the menstrual cycle every month. And the data shows that all human beings are affected by the moon. We are made up primarily of water and gravity and the moon affect water with the tides. Right? And so it makes sense that human beings would be affected by this. And the more we pay attention to it, the more we begin to tune into how we feel throughout the month. The part that I love is that we can organize our time according to how we actually feel because most productivity systems and time management systems are built around the idea that we do the same exact thing every single day and ideally we do more than we did the day before, but women’s bodies are not built for that. We are built for the long game and we’re a little bit different every day in a very predictable way. It’s very important to pay attention to that and to not beat ourselves up for not feeling exactly how we did the day before because there’s a gift in every single phase if we pay attention to it.

Jesse: Now we’re going to take another quick break from our chat with Kate to give a shout out to our show partner Beekeeper’s Naturals.

Marni: I hope you had a chance to listen to our episode with Carly Stein. The last episode 297 as we took a deep dive into all things bees and bee products .and their products are legit and one that we love and have been using for years is bee pollen. And if you listen to the episode, you learn that this is nature’s multivitamin giving your body everything it needs. It’s great for energy, great for repair, it adds such a great texture to your food. And we’ve tried a lot of different pollens over the years and no other one compares to their pollen. It is so good. And the other good news is that you only need a small amount, just a small sprinkle on your chia bowl or on your smoothie bowl or just right into your mouth. So go ahead and try some bee pollen. And while you’re at grab some of their other amazing products because they are such good quality.

Jesse: And as listener of our show, you get 15% off the whole Beekeeper’s lineup. And to take advantage, just go to ultimatehealthpodcast.com/beekeepers again, that URL is ultimatehealthpodcast.com/beekeepers and if you spend $60 or more you get free shipping. Marni and I have this bee pollen almost every morning. We love it, it’s nutritious, delicious, adds a nice crunch to our breakfast, try it out, you won’t regret it.

Marni: And now a shout out from our other show partner Four Sigmatic. As you probably know by now I am not a coffee drinker but if I was a coffee drinker I would definitely choose one that’s infused with mushrooms and one that’s totally organic and non-gmo and actually tastes good and that’s exactly what Four Sigmatic does with their coffee. And the only one that I’ve tried to date is the adaptogen coffee, which is super yummy because its got mushrooms and cinnamon and I put that into an elixir and it was delicious and Jesse’s hardcore he likes his coffee straight up. He just likes the one with lion’s mane and chaga. And you might be more of someone who likes a mixed blend and they have a mushroom coffee latte and a mushroom mocha mix. So really for any kind of coffee person, there is everything to choose from and it tastes delicious on its own or blended into something else. So go and get your coffee fix on because Four Sigmatic has it all and it’s such high quality.

Jesse: As a listener of our show, you get 15% off all your Four Sigmatic purchases. And to take advantage, all you need to do is go to ultimatehealthpodcast.com/foursigmatic. Again, that URL is ultimatehealthpodcast.com/foursigmatic and if you spend $100 or more, you get free shipping. And as Marni mentioned, I love the lion’s mane, chaga coffee. What I love about these coffees is the fact that I’m not going to miss my morning coffee. And I know if you’re a coffee drinker, you’re the same way. So we’re ensured each and every day we’re getting our medicinal mushrooms on. So get your Four Sigmatic coffee today. This stuff is incredible. And now back to our chat.

Marni: I love that. It’s such an interesting way of looking at things and it just makes sense because it’s just the way the world is set up. We just need to kind of give in to this wisdom that’s around us and just honour it and talking about the long game, you know, brings me into thinking about to-do lists. And you talk about this in your book of how you like to set up a weekly to do list versus a daily to-do lists. And I think that is very practical. So tell us about this.

Kate: So I used to do a daily to do list and what I would do is basically dump everything on the list that I could possibly think of that I needed to do ever. And it became really long and also incredibly anxiety inducing because every time I looked at the list it would produce the same anxious feeling that I had had when I made the list. So now you know, I keep my ideas somewhere else in an idea file. I keep our projects like as a company in our project management software and then I only put the things that actually need to happen this week on my weekly to do list and it gives me flexibility and freedom because on any given day something unexpected happens, like somebody needs me, one of my kids is sick, the nanny cancels. I mean there’s so many reasons that I might not be able to do what I wanted to do today, but over the week I can usually get most of the things done that needed to happen because when I make a weekly to do list, I give myself more space and more grace and I ask myself three questions before I put an item on the list. One is does this actually need to be done? Because a lot of the time we do things that are unnecessary. For example, I was talking to Dr. Tsabary the other day, she wrote the Awakened Family and Conscious Parenting. She’s an incredibly well known, successful public figure and she was just like, yeah, like I don’t even know how to post an Instagram story. It’s not a great use of my time. So I’m never gonna learn. I literally just don’t do that. And I loved the example of like, does it need to be done Well no, it doesn’t. And we have so much pressure that we put on ourselves for all the things we could be doing. And the truth is a lot of them don’t actually need to be done. We need to pick a few things to be really good at and be super focused on, but we can’t do all of the things. And so I always ask, does this actually need to be done? And you know, essentially is it in line with the vision of this week, of this month, of this year for my life and is it necessary for that vision? And then next is does it need to be done by me? So you had spoken Marni about delegation. So is there someone else who could do this? Could my husband do it? Could someone on my team do it? Is there a software that could do it for me? Is there an app? Like is there some other way? For example, grocery shopping, not something that I love, not something that’s a great use of my time. We now have a delivery service in my town and you pay 10 extra dollars to get the groceries delivered, the same groceries that I could go spend 45 minutes shopping for. 10 bucks is definitely worth 45 minutes of my time. So does it need to be done by me? Oftentimes not. And then the final thing is does it need to be done right now? And so if it’s a task that does not actually need to happen this week, I don’t put it on this week’s to do list, I put it on the calendar or I put it in my project management software for a future date.

Jesse: And Kate, this ties into something else you talk about in the book called your vital few, or in your case you’re vital two. So can you just elaborate on that a little bit?

Kate: Yeah, so this was inspired by Darren Hardy, who wrote a book called The Compound Effect. He’s the publisher of Success magazine. And he talked about our vital few, that each of us only have a few things that we can do and that only we can do that really make the biggest impact. And most of us are spending our time doing things other than our vital few. And this is really the same concept as Pareto Principle, the 80/20 rule that says that 80% of our results are caused by 20% of our actions. And I am obsessed with the 80/20 rule. I apply it to everything because it works for everything and I really recommend taking a look at what are the actions that have led to your biggest wins in business in life, in your career? What are the actions that have actually led to your biggest wins? For me, it’s creating content and making new connections. Every time those are the two things that have led to my biggest wins. When I have a week where a kid is sick, where there’s been, you know, five snow days, which I know you, you guys understand in Ontario. You know when things are totally thrown off, I just, everything goes away other than creating content or creating connections. And I also know that if I’m spending my time doing those things, I am using my time in the highest and best use. I know I am being on purpose, I am being of service and I’m using my time here on earth wisely. And that’s really important to me. I don’t want to squander the time I have.

Jesse: And you talk about how these are the things typically we love to do the most.

Kate: Sometimes they really are. And I think that our culture has taught us that in order to be successful there has to be a certain amount of suffering and that if something is joyful than it couldn’t possibly be worth your time. I think there’s this association with, with struggle being inherently valuable. And so I thought, because I love meeting people so much, I love getting to know them. Connecting, networking. I thought that that was frivolous, that that was like a waste of time because I enjoyed it and then when I really did the analysis and I looked at the biggest wins of my career, I realized that a lot of them happened because of those connections I had made because of the investment I had made in those relationships. So now I know, you know, setting aside an hour to have a Skype date with someone new or when I’m in New York City, you know, meeting somebody for lunch or dinner. Not that I’m doing those meetings in a calculated way, I’m not thinking like, oh what am I going to get from this? But I just know in the long game investing in relationships A makes me really happy and B is really good for business and for you listening in, what is the thing that you really enjoy that maybe you’re taking for granted that’s actually really good for your results, that you’re discounting because you love it so much.

Jesse: Your company has a do less filter. Explain this.

Kate: Our Do Less filter is okay, what’s the result that we want? And is there a way that we could get it that allows us to do fewer steps? I mean it’s really that or in a simpler way. So every single project where we’re looking at, we’re like, okay, what’s the do less way to do it? For example, I need you to record a sales video for our program we were offering, and I hadn’t written the script yet and it was coming up to shoot day and I was like, oh gosh, I haven’t written the script, I don’t know how to write a sales video script or what am I gonna do? I don’t have time, blah blah, blah, blah. And then a woman in our company was like, well, if we applied the do less filter to this, we would realize that you’ve already written a brilliant sales page. Why don’t you use the sales pages as your sales video script and just edit it slightly. It’s like you’re a genius. It took me like 10 minutes to edit it and the video is great and the promotion went really, really well. So we saved so much time and we got a great result. And so a lot of times we just add extra steps because we think being busier means we’re automatically going to be more successful. But that’s just not true. Doing more things does not mean you’re going to get better results.

Marni: I love that. And something else you talk about in the book is living simply, which is something that Jesse and I have chosen to do over the last number of years. We moved out of the busy city of Toronto to a smaller city, Windsor, and we have chosen a simple life. But you talk about the contrast between simple and minimalist. And I find that interesting because we also strive towards minimalism. Jesse’s way more of a minimalist than I am, but we live simply. But we are on this path of trying to minimize the amount of stuff that we have at home. So let’s just talk about the difference and the similarities between the two of these concepts.

Kate: Yeah, I think that’s great. So obviously they’re very similar and I’m sure in some ways they’re super interchangeable. But I am not a minimalist like you came to my house. It’s beautiful and its streamlined. But like we have a bajillion books, you know, I’m not trying to get down to two pairs of shoes. Like there are certain things that I actually really enjoy having in my life and when those things are creating unnecessary complications, then I begin to take a look at it. For example, like I have a friend who I love dearly who swaps out her living room decor frequently, like seasonally and for parties and for also she has like all this stuff in her basement, different throw pillows and different decor, you know, scenarios and all this stuff for entertaining. And it’s impressive and it’s amazing. But when I look at that, I’m exhausted because it looks really complicated. I have like one set of dishes a set of napkins. It’s very, very simple and I like that for me. And so I think what’s really important is to know that not everybody’s gauge of this is going be the same. My friend Sarah Kathleen Peck is so brilliant. She decided that she and her husband were going to get all their clothes down to fit in just one bureau and she has two pairs of jeans. She got down to a pair of flip flops, a pair of flats and a pair of sneakers for her shoes. That’s it. She doesn’t ever wear makeup. She gets her haircut like once a year. This is how she does her life because she wanted to keep things simple and she noticed that a lot of things that were about the way that women are supposed to look, we’re taking up her time unnecessarily and at the end of the day it didn’t really matter to her. And so that’s what this comes from. We have to ask what brings me joy? What matters to me, not one of my in-laws think, not what is my neighbor thing, not what does my mother expect, but what actually brings me joy and what’s necessary for me. And then cut out everything else that’s not that.

Jesse: And when it comes to living simply and minimalism or you and Mike on the same page.

Kate: Oh, what a good question. We are and this is to our detriment and also to our benefit. Mike and I, we like to get rid of stuff. We both really like to get rid of stuff. But he’s better at it than I am. I will say this, like he will have a tendency to throw things out and then I’ll be like, wait, where was that thing? And he’s like, oh oops, it’s gone. And that’s okay. You know, at the end of the day like we don’t really need anything other than each other. But from a financial perspective we are on the same page and that we have quite shared values about you know, what we want to spend money on. And I think thinking about simplicity and minimalism always is going to impact our finances because when we simplify our lives, usually we save money. So for us, we know spending money on organic, high quality food, we do have the privilege of living in a place where we have access to that. We do have the financial resources and that’s something we always prioritize. So I’m always going to prioritize organic food over designer clothes for example. And so is he. We’re like not into fancy cars, you know? So those things are really, really helpful because we match up.

Jesse: And talk about life living up in Maine. Is this where you grew up?

Kate: I left Maine for 10 years and then I moved back. We bought a house in my hometown a little under two years ago and I just always wanted to raise kids here because it’s safe because in general people are less caught up in getting somewhere, are more into enjoying what’s in front of them and that’s really important to me. I spent six years living in New York City. I spent some time in LA and in some bigger cities and while I so appreciate the opportunities and the connections there, there was a feeling of like everyone was always trying to get somewhere else and of course I have goals and ambitions and dreams, but I really liked that the people I spend my time with in general are living here and now and aren’t quite so obsessed with the rat race.

Jesse: And I know friend time, we talked about this earlier, so important to you. What’s the community like for you and Mike in Maine?

Kate: We have definitely worked hard to cultivate communities. So Mike gets together with buddies for lunch. He’s always inviting people to lunch and giving them a shout and cultivating that. He’s found that in men, and this is a generalization, but it is what he’s found. They’re not quite as good at reaching out and building relationships and he’s really overcome that within himself and built a really great guy community. I’m very blessed that I have some close friends from high school who still live here and I love spending time with them. And then I’ve cultivated relationships outside of that within the entrepreneurial community and then also through different mom’s groups. So I have a small group of mighty relationships and I always prioritize seeing these people will do a lot of potlucks. Like we’ll do a summer solstice potluck or a winter solstice potluck or you know, barbecues. Like we’re just always having people over to just like eat veggie burgers or whatever. In our driveway. We keep things really simple because entertaining in complicated ways is not my thing. But getting together with people is my thing. So cultivating that is always super important to us.

Jesse: And in the book you talk about surrendering and I’m just curious, was this a concept you had to learn the hard way?

Kate: Absolutely. In particular, I talk in the book about surrendering around my daughter’s sleep. I really am a recovering control freak. I think that a lot of us like to try to control our environment, but becoming a mother has forced me to let go because if I was trying to control everything I would go completely nuts. And I did in certain ways, certainly around trying to control our first daughter sleep. She was just not asleep or she was sick. She’s waking up all the time and I thought that if I could just follow these sleep rules perfectly, I could fix it. And the truth is she was going to be who she was going to be and I really had to let go and allow things not to be perfect and allow myself not to follow the rules that everyone said would fix her sleep issues. And it felt really good when I finally let go, like I realized how much energy I was wasting trying to control it all. And I find the same thing in our business. You know, I’ll want a want to promotion to go a certain way or think we should get this certain result and I’ll white knuckle it. And then as soon as I realized that I am not the leader of the universe, I’m not in charge of everything and maybe there’s something bigger here for me, like maybe something else is in charge and I can let go and go with the flow. It’s like an instant sense of relief of oh my God, I didn’t even realize how hard I was gripping and how much energy I was spending trying to control it.

Jesse: And as somebody who’s transitioned and evolved through this process over time, I’m guessing, what would you say to somebody out there who’s listening and they’re caught up in that perfectionism that trying to control everything. What are some small steps that that person could take to begin to surrender?

Kate: Mm, yeah, absolutely. So one thing that I noticed for myself is just noticing literally where my body is holding. So one thing I’ll do and I’ll see in myself is when I’m in that sense of controlling, I will cross my legs and then squeeze them together really, really hard and not even know I’m doing it. So just noticing that and then literally letting go with my muscles and maybe in my neck and shoulders or with my hands or with my legs has been really, really helpful. So I would recommend noticing where you’re holding literally in your body and literally letting go. And then also a meditation practice of some kind. It could be four minutes long, it could be, you know, three breaths in and out with your eyes closed. It doesn’t have to be complicated, but I find just closing my eyes and taking a couple deep breaths and just checking in to say like, hey, I get that I’m part of something bigger than my ego and my personality and I’ll pray too and I’ll say, hey, can someone else take over here? I wouldn’t identify as a Christian or anything, but there’s this great song called Jesus Take The Wheel, which I really love, which I think speaks to surrender so beautifully. So if you are finding that you’re into perfectionism and control, I just do a quick search for the Jesus, take the wheel song and give it a listen.

Marni: We’re going to have to go listen to that right after this. Thanks Kate and thank you so much for all the awesomeness that we’ve talked about today, but one last question that we have to ask you is what does ultimate health mean to you?

Kate: I think ultimate health means awareness. I think that the healthiest we can be is the most self aware. We can be just aware of what we’re putting in our bodies, aware of the thoughts that we’re thinking, aware of our patterns and by aware I mean like awake and conscious and paying attention. I think that’s what ultimate health means to me.

New Speaker: All right, excellent. And the new book is already out, Do Less. Other than the listeners getting a copy of the new book, how can they connect with you after the show?

Kate: Head over to katenorthrup.com I’d love to connect with you there and then also on Instagram @katenorthrup is a great place to connect.

Jesse: All right Kate, this has been fun. We’re going to link everything up over at ultimatehealthpodcast.com in the show notes and wishing you all the best.

Kate: Thank you.

Marni: Thank you so much Kate. We hope you enjoyed today’s conversation with Kate. I really loved it because there’s so many practical takeaways and one big thing for Kate is organizing your day and your week and what that looks like and she’s a really big fan of taking her to-do lists and spreading it out over a week. And why not get a copy of our workbook because we really give you the tools to do that. You can map out your week, you can map out your day and you’ve got a lot of different ideas on how to do that. So we are excited to have this workbook ready for you to get your week and your days organized. So go ahead and get it at ultimatehealthpodcast.com/workbook and it’s totally free so you have no reason not to get it. And if you love today’s episode, please let us know over on Instagram. Give us a shoutout in your story. Take a screenshot, send us some love tag @ultimatehealthpodcast tag, @katenorthrup and let us know what you thought of todays show.

Jesse: For full show notes be sure and head over to ultimatehealthpodcast.com/298 we have links there to everything we discussed in a nice show summary. Be sure and check that out. And also included now for each and every episode in our show notes is a worksheet. So this is a pdf file. You can download it, you can print it out or you can keep it on your device and it’s just extra content that goes along with the episodes. So you’re going to love these. Before we let you go, I want to give some love to our editor and engineer Jase Sanderson over at podcasttech.com Jase thanks for all you do. We really appreciate it. And this week’s fun fact about Jase is that him and his wife just got back from their honeymoon in Egypt. The culture was immense. The food was great, amazing sights, it was really hot, and the people were friendly. He can’t recommend it enough. Well, Marni and I are going to have to add Egypt to our bucket lists. That sounds incredible. Have an awesome week. We’ll talk soon. Take care.

Disclaimer: This is a raw transcript and it may contain some errors. To listen to the complete audio interview, go to ultimatehealthpodcast.com/298.